Episode 382: The Podcast that Could Save Your Life with Chad Pollard

In this episode, Chad Pollard, Co-Founder and CEO at Wasatch Biolabs, shares details of the discovery that will revolutionize how we diagnose diseases. Chad Majored in Genetics, Genomics, and Biotech and is a Ph.D. candidate in Cell Biology and Physiology at BYU (Brigham Young University). On his path to becoming a Neurologist, Chad needed to get involved in research, so he signed up at his mentor’s lab. Little did he know that decision would change his life and redirect his career.

Rob Shallenberger: Welcome back to our Becoming Your Best podcast listeners. We’ve done some pretty awesome podcasts through the years, we’re coming up on episode number 400. What we’re going to share today is one of those game-changers. You’re gonna look back on all the podcasts and say there’s a handful of game-changer ones, this is going to be one of those. And nothing like setting the bar high right out of the chute. But that’s because this is not one of those that’s just motivational or “here’s a tip,” this really is going to revolutionize the way we diagnose diseases, it’s going to change healthcare as we know it today. So I want to give a little background. We have on our podcast today, who’s becoming a good friend, Chad Pollard. We’ve known each other now for a few weeks. And he was introduced to me by one of our coaching clients and great friends; he’s like, “Rob, you gotta meet this guy. He just happens to be in BYU. What he’s working on is incredible.” So, he connected us via text, we reached out, we connected, and went to lunch. And when Chad told me about what he was doing blew me away. I said, “Chad, I’m all in. If there’s any way I can support or help you. I’m passionate about this cause.” Many of our listeners know that my mom passed away from early-onset Alzheimer’s, two and a half years ago. So what we’re going to talk about today is near and dear to my heart and has a personal place for me. But I know that many people listening to this had been affected in your family by things like diabetes, ALS, Parkinson’s, Alzheimer’s, there’s a long list of things that what Chad is going to share today is going to touch on so many of those. But I don’t want to put the cart before the horse. So, Chad, why don’t you take just a minute or so and, first of all, introduce yourself? And then let’s get into what you identified and invented, the company you created, and we’ll get into all of those details through the remainder of the podcast. But before we do, let’s take one or two minutes for everyone to get to know you. 

Chad Pollard: First thing, thanks for having me on. I love everything that you guys have going on here. So, I’m a PhD student at BYU. I’m 25 years old, I’m a young buck compared to a lot of these other guys. My whole story was, I went on a mission to Chile, came home, and I thought I was headed to med school for a long time, and that’s what I was passionate about. I was a neuroscience major and I was like, “I’m going to be a neurologist, that’s what I’m gonna do.” And as part of that road, they said, “Hey, you need to get involved in research.” So, I said, “Okay, well, I’ll sign up for a lab.” I signed up with my mentor, Tim Jenkins, which has come to be the best decision I’ve made, probably one of the one of the best decisions I’ve made in my life. And through the years, about a year and a half ago, as we were studying, we realized that we could apply some of the techniques that we had learned in his lab to identify Alzheimer’s disease. And so that’s kind of what happened a year and a half ago, I woke up in the middle of the night and said, “Oh, my gosh! I think we can diagnose Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s, ALS, these terrible neurodegenerative diseases, pre-symptomatically.” And at the time, I didn’t realize that there were therapeutics available to treat these people early on. It was just a hit, “I think it’s a cool paper. I think this is a great research project.” So we went forward with it. We had incredible results where we weren’t having any false negatives or any false positives, we were perfectly identifying people that had Alzheimer’s disease or were going to get the disease later on. It went from that to launching fall-on into a company. So it’s been a fun ride and I’m still here getting my PhD at BYU. I’ve got a couple of years left, and we’re taking this out to the world. So, that’s a little bit about me. 

Rob Shallenberger: Yes, and I love it, Chad. Just love everything about you. Let’s talk through now our listeners. You’ve got to hang with us through the end of this podcast. When we say “pre-symptomatic testing,” I know there are probably some people who would say, “No, that would freak me out. Why would I want to know that?” Hang with us to the end, we’ll explain why this is a game changer. Don’t worry about that kind of stuff. You really need to hear this from beginning to end. So, Chad, why don’t you start with the technology? You said you woke up. You shared the story with me. You just felt like you had this download truly from heaven. And then what is it that you discovered that wasn’t ever been done? And just walk us through, if you will, the progression of what you discovered, what you’re doing, and why this matters. 

Chad Pollard: Basically, in our lab, we were studying DNA methylation, which, for those that don’t know, you have your DNA, which is just your standard genetic code that everyone has unique to them, and then you have things that are bound or are attached to that DNA that help regulate — it helps an eye cell become an eye and a heart cell become a heart. We study those things that we found to be very unique to cell types. As that goes along, we realize that when cells die, they spill their guts into the bloodstream — it’s like the sewers of our bodies where things go to get cleaned up. And our lab realized, “Okay, we can draw some blood, take a look at all the fragments and contents in there, and we can start to tell you where these pieces came from, what cell they came from, and what organ.” That is the premise of our technology. And what we do is we take a blood draw from a patient, and we’re able to identify the pieces that came from dying neuron cells because that’s what neurodegenerative disease is; it’s neurons that have been dying for years and years. And once we hit this threshold of losing 60-70% of our neurons, we start to see these symptoms. So, we are able to identify those fragments early on and tell someone, “Hey, you have stuff in your blood that’s not supposed to be there,” and use it to guide them and let them know that they need treatment now so that they can prevent the disease from affecting our life.

Rob Shallenberger: That’s a pretty high-level overview, which is great. And I don’t know if people are gonna get the sense quite yet of how powerful this is. So, for example, the NFL, now, is going to be looking at this as their concussion protocol. We can talk about that as well. But this can become a concussion protocol, it can become something that can identify any of these types of neurodegenerative diseases in their earliest stages, and that’s what’s a game changer. You said it right, Chad, which is when someone’s really getting symptoms of these neurodegenerative diseases, they’ve already lost 60-70% of the neuron cells. Again, let’s just talk about it now, people ask—wherever you’re listening to this, in your car, I hope you can save both of our passions around this—why does this matter? And why would you want to know? Because there’s so much to do about it. What Chad shared with me blew me away, and you correct me if I’m wrong on any of this, Chad. My mom’s a perfect case study here. My mom was 55 years old. By the time she started exhibiting her symptoms, she’s already lost 60-70% of her brain cells, the neuron cells. So, where would this have made a difference? If this technology, if this diagnostic tool would have been available—this is just now coming available first time ever—then a person could take their blood draw—to Chad’s point—and you could see some of these neurons cell fragments in the blood and say, “Wait a second, you’re 45 years old, these shouldn’t be there.” There are therapeutics that exist right now in the world that can stop the neurodegenerative decline because of the dying neuron cells, but those therapeutics don’t help someone that’s already lost 60-70% of their cells. Chad, am I saying that correctly? 

Chad Pollard: Yeah, you are spot on. And these are things anyone can look up. I mean, there are massive studies that have been done by Biogen and Eli Lilly and Ross Diagnostics, and they have these drugs that have shown to slow down neuron cell death. They can’t reverse what’s going on, but they can very much prevent it. They can fix the problem of our body killing neurons. So that’s where this came to be is they were like, “Oh, my gosh! You have the ability for us to identify who needs our drug, who needs to be on treatment now.” And based on all the results they show, they’re confident that they can reduce cell death back to regular levels and prevent the disease from ever appearing. So, it’s extremely powerful, one, that it can do that, but also we can apply our diagnostic to multiple diseases, like you said. It’s not just Alzheimer’s disease, it’s not just a one-off; we can identify Parkinson’s disease, we can identify ALS, multiple sclerosis, Huntington’s disease, these horrible diseases that all have the same root cause, which is neurons dying. We just need to know what part of the brain is dying. And that’s exactly what we’ve been able to pull off and what we’re doing at our lab here at our company. 

Rob Shallenberger: And to your point, Chad, there’s like 16 different areas of the brain that you’ve identified that if you see that particular neuron, you can trace it back to that specific part of the brain, right? 

Chad Pollard: 100%. So, the “end all, be all” goal is someone goes in for a blood draw at their physician, they turn age 40, and you’re getting a blood draw to check for all your standard levels of your heart health and all that jazz. And part of that would come off to our lab, and we’re just checking your neuron health, your brain health. We’re checking all these 16 subtypes, we’re checking all these different neurons, and we’re just ensuring that your brain is healthy, and you’re not losing neurons too quickly at some part of your brain that’s going to lead to a disease. So, it’s not invasive — we require very little blood to just monitor your health. 

Rob Shallenberger: And this is a big deal. So, for those listening, imagine in your minds, I’m just drawing this line here with my hands, there’s this level of neuron that you should see in the bloodstream, a level of cells that we should see; anything above that line is not normal. And we shouldn’t see anything above that line in our 40s and our 50s. So, again, I’ll use my mom, Chad, if she would have taken this test at age 43, 10-12 years, everybody’s going to be different, and you would have seen an abnormally high level of neuron cell death in her bloodstream. It doesn’t even matter what her genetics tested. In my mom’s case, she tested negative for every known variant related to Alzheimer’s or dementia. So, according to genetics, had she done a genetic profile, she would have said, “I’m good to go.” If she would have had your blood test, we would have said, “Wait a second. No, not good to go. This is an abnormally high level of neuron cell death.” And that’s where then the therapeutics could have a big deal. And I hope this is resonating with our listeners because what that means is therapeutics to slow down, decline, or stop the cell death are irrelevant for someone that already is so far along in the disease. And that’s where we’re catching people now in the diagnostics is they’ve already lost most of the brain cells. We catch it now early on like my mom could have maybe 10-12 years earlier, now you start taking those therapeutics, you’ve only lost maybe 10% of the neuron cells and you’ve just expanded your lifespan dramatically. Is that right, Chad? 

Chad Pollard: Oh, absolutely. What’s amazing about these diseases is they traditionally don’t end your life earlier than what’s normal, to a point. Some people are diagnosed so early on, and it does reduce their life expectancy. A lot of these patients die when they’re 70, 75, 80 years old, but they’ve been dead much longer than that. They’ve been missing and gone for a long time before that. So, this allows them to almost act as if they never had the disease in the first place. And to your point, I want to talk about, for a long time, though, genetic predispositions were seen as the marker. They’re testing for the specific places in the genome like APOE2 and APOE4, which I know to a lot of people just mean anything. But in the scientific world, everyone thought that if you tested positive for those, you were for sure going to have Alzheimer’s disease, and now they’re realizing that that is not the case at all. If you test positive for those, you still only have about a 20% chance of getting it, which is not much higher than the average. So they’re realizing its environmental exposure, health concerns that are causing this and not necessarily genetic predisposition. So, that’s why this is so valuable, as it allows people to actually know if you’re gonna get it. 

Rob Shallenberger: And Chad, you’re 100%. So, genetics, you’re like, “Hey, you may have a predisposition towards whatever, but there’s no guarantee.” Like my mom, she had no genetic markers of any kind, yet she got it. And likewise, someone that may have a genetic predisposition doesn’t mean they’re going to get it. What we’re saying here on this podcast today is that a person that takes your blood test will know for a certainty what’s happening. And your success rate is 100%; it’s either there or it’s not. 

Chad Pollard: I think genetics is what has caused a lot of people to be scared to get tested because it’s, “Hey, you have the pre-disposition, or you have the genetic marker, and we think you’re gonna get it, but we don’t actually know.” So, it instills a ton of fear and uncertainty in these people’s lives where they don’t know when, how, or if they’re gonna get it. And ours is very biological; we’re telling you, “Hey, you have something that we need to fix now, and we can fix it.” We bring back a lot of hope and joy to these families that have been scared for a long time. So, to your point, we want everyone to get tested, and people shouldn’t be worried because we’re actively able to fix this and you want it to get fixed. We’re not telling you, “Hey, you might get it.” We’re not instilling fear; we are giving you a solution. 

Rob Shallenberger: That’s what I love about this. So, whether someone’s in their 60s, 50s, 40s, or 30s, if they get tested and something’s abnormally off, they can immediately start doing something about it, which gives the person great hope. So unlike genetics, where there is a lot of fear, I can relate to that, this is simply a data point that says, “Look, it’s there, it’s not there, etc. Now, here’s what you can do about it, and there’s a ton that we can do.” Time — it’s almost like the stock market: time value of money. The earlier we catch these things and identify them, the better. And it doesn’t really matter what our genetics say, if the markers aren’t there in the blood, it’s not happening, you don’t need to do anything. I don’t care what your genetics say, the markers are in the blood; therefore, here’s what you can do about it. 

Chad Pollard: Oh, absolutely. You and I have had some great conversations over the weeks that it’s not just drug based. Our brain, it’s an organ, you can work it out, you can make it stronger, you can make it better. And that’s the whole field that people are just now starting to dive into, where if we know you have cell death going on, you can do your brain workouts, you can do these things to help prevent it. It’s not just a drug, it’s not just, “Oh, you know what, now you’re gonna have strong neurons. There’s so much we can do to prevent the disease from coming, but we need to know where it’s dying and we need to know what’s going on.  

Rob Shallenberger: I’m so glad you made that observation. There may be some people listening saying, “I don’t want therapeutics.” Great, that’s fine. Just having an awareness that something is happening allows you to start doing some other things. I’ve got a great friend, John Hatch, who owns the Brain Rehab Clinic. He’s developed some amazing tools to do exactly what you just said; to exercise parts of the brain that may not have been firing correctly. So, whether it’s diet, meditation, exercise, or brain exercises, there is so much we can do once we’re in an empowering position to know what we need to work on. Let me shift gears just a little bit, Chad. I mentioned concussions earlier, I want to come back to this just so that people can really get a sense of how wide-reaching this can be. And you did mention this, but I will mention it again. I know you’re working on other things as well—heart disease, diabetes, and early detection of cancer—so this is going to have a really wide-ranging impact over the course of time. Let’s just talk about concussion protocol for a second. So, again, correct me if I’m wrong here, someone gets a concussion, and you’re gonna see a spike in neuron cell death. And up to this point, the only way that they have a concussion protocol, the monitor is based on a test or symptoms. So, my brother-in-law was a kicker for the University of Utah, and spent a lot of time doing that, very familiar with a lot of friends in the NFL. And if I understand this correctly, a lot of people take this baseline test in the NFL, and they fail it on purpose, or they score poorly on purpose, so that when they get a concussion down the road, they don’t have to really meet the marker of any threshold, they can take the test and pass, because that’s how they’re going to get paid. And so they don’t want to be out on a concussion protocol because they lose their money and pay; thereby, they set themselves up for long-term potential injury. Whereas this, now it’s concussion protocol based on actual facts. So, you take their blood work, “Hey, there’s a spike in neurons.” And of course, it’s going to slowly decline, and they don’t play again until it hits that normal level that we should be seeing. Is that correct, Chad?  

Chad Pollard: That’s absolutely correct. So, with concussion protocol, neuron cell death is directly correlated with inflammation in the brain, that’s a very scary and dangerous place to be here: an athlete. Because if you’ve had one event and you get a bunch of inflammation in your brain, you want to make sure that that inflammation is healed up and gone before you have another impact because if you do, that’s where traumatic brain injury happens, that’s where life-altering things can happen. That’s exactly what we’re doing. It’s horrible that in NFL, NBA, and some of these places where if you get a concussion, your pay is at jeopardy. So, people are very motivated to fail those tests at the beginning so that they can pass and be paid. But something like this not only does it give them their health back, but it requires the NFL to pay these players. That’s one thing that the NFL doesn’t know either; they don’t understand who’s actually injured when it comes to concussion protocols, that’s what this will provide for a lot of people. You get a concussion, you come back, we check your blood levels, and we check them over the next week, the next month. And as they are reduced to a healthy level, we then can clear you to play safely, which is very important. 

Rob Shallenberger: And that’s a big deal because nobody needs an MRI, CT scan, or anything else; it’s just based on what you’re seeing in real-time in the blood and it’s 100% accurate. 

Chad Pollard: Absolutely. And the thing with concussions is you can’t see any of that on an MRI or a CT scan. It’s at a level that is so low that it doesn’t show up on images, so you need other methods to properly tell someone what their inflammation looks like, and this will allow us to do that. So, as a huge play that we have to just help improve the sports community and help improve players’ lives for some of these extremely exciting sports that can be dangerous. 

Rob Shallenberger: And it’s funny because I don’t know if anyone’s familiar with Chad Lewis who played for the Philadelphia Eagles. This is Chad’s father-in-law. So, he’s very familiar with NFL world. So, Chad, one other comment here, and I know it’s down the road because right now you’re really rolling out the neurodegenerative area. Talk briefly about, further down the road, your thought process and some other areas that you see. I know you talked with me about diabetes, heart disease, cancer, etc. What do you see coming down the road in the future? 

Chad Pollard: There are a lot of diseases that are really similar to each other, where it’s a cell type in our body that’s dying. So, Type 1 diabetes — our body is killing these beta cells that secrete insulin and are extremely important for our overall health. And a lot of people don’t know this, but it has a very similar phenotype as these neurodegenerative diseases where a child is born, they can have genetic predispositions to this disease, but that doesn’t tell the doctor when they’re going to get it or if they’re going to get it. Basically, for some patients, the first four years of life, they’re healthy; for others, that can be as long as 20 years of life. So we can use it to monitor beta cell death going on. And there are some really powerful therapeutics that have shown the same thing for Type 1 diabetes of “Hey, if we know when someone’s beta cells are dying, we can prevent it.” So, there are places with early cancer detection, we’re meeting with a group for Lyme disease monitoring because that whole world for Lyme diseases is something I didn’t know until recently, but a lot of those patients are just frustrated in knowing what bacteria they have and what’s going on in their body. So we’re able to take this technology and really apply it to just totally change the way diagnostic healthcare is done. There have been pushes in the past for preventative medicine, but no one’s really been able to pull that off. Because to accurately give someone preventative medicine, you need to know what’s ongoing. It’s too difficult to guess who’s gonna get what, and that’s what’s happened with genetics; they haven’t been able to accurately identify who’s going to get what and when. So, we truly can provide the standard of care for preventative medicine and change the way diagnostics are done, and really save a lot of lives. 

 Rob Shallenberger: To Chad’s point, he’s talking about this standard of care. What that means is you don’t need several thousand dollars to go do some specialized treatment. If you’re gonna get a PET scan, I’ve been looking into this, $6,000, which is preventative for a lot of people that don’t allow them to do that. This is a simple little blood draw that you do every year as part of your physical, and that’s it, there’s nothing more to it. This is something that anybody can access. It’s affordable so that anybody can cover it. This just becomes a simple part of our annual physical. Right, Chad? 

Chad Pollard: Oh, absolutely. We’ve even been able to reduce the price low enough where patients that who don’t have insurance, or for some reason, the insurance can’t be involved, they can pay out of pocket. Most people can put together $200 to pay for a blood panel that can monitor their health, and allow them to know if anything’s going on. So, that’s one thing that gets brought up to us a lot is, “Oh, my goodness, you’re sitting on a goldmine. You can charge whatever you want and you’ll do just fine.” And that is not our goal. Our goal is to impact the world and save lives of patients that have these horrible diseases. So we want to keep it as cheap as we possibly can on our end, so that we can truly have everyone access this incredible diagnostic. 

Rob Shallenberger: Being in this world, anybody that’s experienced ALS, Alzheimer’s, whatever, one of the challenges is where do you turn? What do you do? And there’s just this big mystery because there’s so much information out there. And this is a total game changer. I don’t think I’m overstating at all to say that this could literally save tens of millions of lives. I’m hoping that anybody listening to this, if you have anything in your family—concussion, PTSD, Alzheimer’s, ALS—you would share this with your family members because this is all about awareness. Chad, talk about your website, number one, and how people get on the waitlist for the blood drive, which is coming really soon. We’re talking a couple of months, three months. This is available in the very near future. So, number one: where would they go, the website? And then number two: what is the point of the waitlist? 

Chad Pollard: So, the website, you can access it at WasatchBiolabs.com. You pull it up and that’s the first thing you’ll see is “join the waitlist.” Pull that up and you’ll see the list of all these diseases that we’re planning on releasing to diagnose early. And the whole point of that waitlist is so that we can get people ready when we’re ready to launch this. We’ve had so many people that say, “Can I please sign up now?” And for the longest time, we’d say, “Well give us a second, we’re trying to get through some regulation stuff. We’re trying to get through government. We’re almost there. The test is ready.” And they say, “Well, where can I sign up?” So we put this together because we’ve had so many people that are just so eager to get in line. So, that’s where you can go. Just go right on there, sign up, get your email, and you’ll start to receive updates from us where we’ll just let you know, “Hey, we just completed this process. We’re now two months out or we’re now a month out.” You’ll get all the updates about when you can get tested and how that process will work. So, we’re right there, we’re in the final steps. And like you said, we’re not blowing smoke and we’re not saying “hey, get signed up,” and we’re still back here trying to develop the test. The test is ready. Now we’re trying to get through all the regulation side of the medical field. So we’re right there to allow people to know and start saving lives. 

Rob Shallenberger: And it really is fascinating. The success rate is 100% because it’s there or it’s not in the bloodstream. So, this is not one of those that’s like, “Hey, sign up for this and then you’ll see.” It’s just crystal clear. So, let me reiterate that: it’s WasatchBiolabs.com. And just like you said, you go to the page, and it says, “Join the waitlist.” Very simple. 

Chad Pollard: It’s very, very simple. And for some reason, if you can’t find that, you can just look up “Chad Pollard” on LinkedIn or whatever you want and there are plenty of ways to find that website. 

Rob Shallenberger: Chad and I talked about this, one of the challenges they’re gonna face in the growth of this is scalability: building other labs and scaling because the demand is going to be so high, based on, obviously, the impact that this will have on people. Insurance is going to totally rally around this because think of all the money that insurance companies are spending on Alzheimer’s, ALS, etc., when someone is diagnosed down the road in the care that goes along with that. 

Chad Pollard: Last year alone, insurance spent $122 billion on taking care of patients with a neurodegenerative disease. So, yeah, insurance will be all over this. And just to be clear, we’re ready to handle them. We have our funds. We’ve been blessed to be prepared for one of these masses hit, and we’ll be able to open up sites all over the country so that we can handle the demand. 

Rob Shallenberger: I love it. You can see why I’m passionate about this. Chad is just a total rockstar. He would acknowledge it and I believe it; this was heaven-inspired. Do you want to say anything about that, Chad? 

Chad Pollard: It absolutely was. We didn’t dive into it much, but even the way I’ve met Tim and some of these other people that have allowed us to fund it, every single moment has been a clear moment of inspiration, which has just been amazing to see those moments of inspiration that have been allowed us to expand quickly and rapidly. People are nice giving me credit, but I’m I’m very confident in knowing who actually gets the credit for these ideas. 

Rob Shallenberger: And I think it’s important to acknowledge that because I also believe this is heaven-inspired. I don’t believe a whole lot in coincidences at this point. We were at a dinner last night with my wife, I did an hour and a half training. She had these conversations with people. She said, “Rob, they said the perfect thing at the perfect time. How in the world did that happen?” Chad and I run into each other. He’s on the podcast today. All of these things aren’t coincidences. And I believe this is heaven inspired. Now, people can disagree with that, and that’s fine. But both of us feel quite strongly about that and you’ve experienced it. And I’ve just seen this happen so many times, I don’t chalk these up to coincidences anymore. 

Chad Pollard: 100%. Think about it, a 25-year-old undergrad goes from an idea in the lab to a company that’s worth $100 million that can access a system. I mean that that does not happen unless there’s inspiration involved.  

Rob Shallenberger: I love that you acknowledge that. So we’re gonna finish this up. Any final comments or things that you want to share before we wrap this up? 

Chad Pollard: I don’t think so. I think we’ve covered everything. We’re just excited to spread the word. So that’s what I’d say to everybody, that this is not some sponsorship that Rob put together. This is just an effort to help change the world, so spread it as far as you can so that we can start saving lives. 

Rob Shallenberger: I love that, Chad. There are so many people out there that have been touched by ALS, Lou Gehrig’s, Alzheimer’s, so many of these different diseases. This really is about awareness at this point. So, please share this share podcast with others, friends, and family. I don’t say that too often, although I love sharing all our podcasts, but this one is one of those that can literally save a family member’s life or a friend. Detection early is the key. I experienced this firsthand with my mom. We’re very proactive as a family right now, so something like this is very near and dear to my heart. So, please share this, at a minimum: WasatchBiolab.com. You can explain it to your family, you can explain it to your friends, share the link, and get on the waitlist. Nothing is lost by taking that blood draw, everything is gained. To Chad’s point, I get zero from this. This is just spreading awareness of something that I feel is something that can change the world in the literal sense. So, please, we’re asking you to share whatever it is you feel comfortable sharing with the people that you want to share it with. So, thanks for joining us today. I hope this has been insightful for you. For me, it blew my mind. And I’m just fascinated with the changes that are coming right now in the world. And this is one of those great ones that we have direct control over spreading to others around us. So, Chad, thanks for joining us. To all of our listeners, thank you for being here. Have a wonderful week and a great rest of your day.