Sleep is one of the most important tools for living a healthy life – and leveraging its benefits by following some simple, yet crucial, principles should be a priority for everyone.
In today’s episode, Joe Ojile, founder, CEO, and Medical Director of the Clayton Sleep Institute talks about the importance of a healthy relationship with our sleeping time and how it affects our daily performance. He also explains why sleep is a health promotion tool, and he gives away some easy-to-detect cues to know if we have a sleeping problem. Joe also shares unique insights about life, forgiveness, and happiness.
Rob Shallenberger: Alright, welcome back to our Becoming Your Best podcast listeners. This is Rob Shallenberger, your host for today. And we have as a guest today a long-time friend, colleague, and just an all-around amazing person who, man I wish this podcast could go for like three or four hours because he just has that many insights that I’m sure he could share with us. So, I want to introduce Joe Ojile in just a very brief background, I’m not going to go through a big biography because it would be that long, but I’ll just share some of the things about him that I’m so impressed with. And right at the top of that list is Joe is a person that truly cares about people. I met him years ago through an organization called EO – Entrepreneurs Organisation – and then he brought me in, we trained the company on, you know the 12 Principles of Highly Successful Leaders and worked with his team – that was years ago – he’s attended our conferences. And so, we’ve just really built a friendship over the years, we met up in Canada, Banff, and just really had become close friends. He’s a pulmonologist by trade – so a doctor that works with people in all kinds of different issues related to pulmonology – and then in addition to that, he built a sleep clinic. So, he really specializes in helping people sleep, which I didn’t realize was such a big deal, but this is a huge thing. So, we’re going to talk a little bit about sleep on this podcast. But before we do, Joe, first of all, welcome and tell everyone a little bit about yourself.
Joe Ojile: Rob, thank you for such a really overly generous introduction. And I will tell you that it’s an honor to be here, and it’s really a great gift to have you as such a good friend over all these years. As far as how I’ve gotten down this path and my journey, early in let’s say my high school years, college years, and so forth, I decided I wanted a life of both science and service. And the thing that led me to the most likely combination of those two things was choosing the profession of both being in medicine, and then how to serve. And when I was fortunate enough to be training at St. Louis University with excellent clinical training I decided I really wanted to work with the doctors who I perceived to have the most interesting and best physiologic basis for what they were doing. And that ended up being the lung doctors or the pulmonary doctors. And we had a great department at that time, and ironically, in that department, we had one of the early sleep doctors who were really doing some groundbreaking work. And so, I got exposure to both of those sets of scientists and clinicians, meaning people who care for patients. And so, that really spurred both my training and my interest in the two fields.
Joe Ojile: My goal professionally was to ultimately be involved in caring for my fellow friends, neighbors, and citizens of my community. And so, I decided I wanted to set up a practice where I grew up. And I’ve been so honored and had such a satisfying practice over these years filled with lots of mostly highs, some lows when you have difficult situations with people you care about, of course, dealing in health care. From there branching out and having sort of the need to do some creative things, and for me, the creation of starting a business fuelled these sort of creative juices and also expanded the ability to care for patients, but in a bit of a larger sense. That has been such an enjoyable and satisfying process because we get to do team building with our organization, care building for how to organize structures organizationally to deliver care to patients. And the sleep field has been one that’s been under development over these last 20 years, and in a rather exponential way. In a field that from a clinical perspective, is really relatively new in the last 20 or 30 years compared to other fields. So, those have been some very interesting things for me, personally, and how I’ve gotten down this path. The most important thing is I was fortunate enough to be born into a good family that had support and encouragement throughout that time. And I had a family around me – my wife and children – who’ve allowed me to do these things in the ways that I’ve wanted them to do, and not everyone’s blessed with that as well, Rob.
Rob Shallenberger: Yeah. That’s true. Well, you’ve had this amazing career as a pulmonologist creating the sleep clinic. I’ve learned – and you’re part of the reason why I’ve learned this – I’ve become more fascinated with sleep and the mind and the brain and all of these things. So, let’s talk a little bit about sleep here first. And I really want to break this podcast into two parts. Number one, let’s talk about sleep and how that applies to the people listening because I know there’s a lot of things that are fascinating out there that most people are not aware of, and things that they can be doing to help themselves and things like that. And in part two of this podcast, let’s talk about some of your experiences just in life. Some of your lessons learned from EO and all these incredible things that you’ve done. I mean, Joe just got back from Rwanda a few weeks ago, an incredible trip there. He’s probably one of the most versed people in history that I’ve ever met. And so, I really want to tap into both parts of these. Let’s talk about sleep for a few minutes, and then let’s talk about some life lessons from your perspective. And so, if you don’t mind, Joe, in that spirit, when it comes to sleep, what are some things that everyone should know and may not be aware of or know?
Joe Ojile: So, Rob, thank you because this is something that’s so close to us and I’m quite passionate about. I think one of the focuses for sleep for most of your listeners is some people think about issues of health from a disease perspective. I would stand back and say let’s focus on sleep as something that’s for healthy living. And the three things for healthy living that kind of come down to a core to begin the conversation are diet, exercise, and sleep as the three sorts of cornerstones of a good healthy living plan. Sleep is a part of that. First of all, we need to choose healthy sleep patterns and healthy sleep behaviors as a choice in our daily lives. And it doesn’t have to be a choice that involves a burden in your life, but choosing several things: one, to be cognizant of sleep as a health promotion tool.
Joe Ojile: The reason we sleep – one of the reasons – is so that we feel good and function at our highest capacity during the day. So, it’s a tool at night to help us function during the day. And the way to use that tool effectively – and if you’re a carpenter, you use a hammer; if you’re a plumber you use a wrench and plumbing tools – this is a tool we can use to help ourselves during the day is to set and fix a steady wake time every morning and to set and fix a healthy bedtime every evening. And giving ourselves enough sleep opportunity to get a healthy amount of sleep during that time and in the morning, to get some light. Preferably bright light, like sunlight outside, let’s say from a beautiful Utah day off the snow-drenched mountains. That 15 or 20 minutes in the morning after you get up and you get going and you have some light, that will help set your body’s time clock to keep you in line both morning and evening. So, this is a great first step toward healthy sleep life. If you do those things, just as a beginning step, that will help frame your day because of your day’s cues – the cues that we have during the day: work, play, exercise – will help keep you in that rhythm. And we need to be in a steady rhythm for sleep like we do many other things for healthy living. That our diet should be a regular rhythm, we should have exercise as part of our rhythm, and actually, our work life should be balanced in there as well.
Joe Ojile: So, when you start to choose sleep and incorporate it into a healthy life pattern, and a healthy life plan it makes a huge difference. So, it’s steady, wake and sleep time with a long enough sleep opportunity and then start to subtract away things that are unhealthy from a sleep perspective. So, nicotine and caffeine too close to bedtime, keeping technology – especially phones, emails, and stimulations – out of the bedroom all night long and preferably away from you a couple of hours before sleep. Those are a few tips, I think, that almost all of us could use as part of our daily routine, and this will allow us to function at a much higher level during the day. And in my view, if we do this, it also enhances your chance of having a happy and joyful day. And that’s something that’s quite important to me. So, those are a few tips that I’m happy, Rob, if you have follow-up questions on that I am happy to answer those.
Rob Shallenberger: Yeah, that’s great. And just, I remember a really good friend of yours who I had the chance to meet when we were out there doing the six-step process with your team, and he worked for a Fortune 100 company – I won’t name the company. But if I remember correctly, this is one of the reasons he came to see you because it has completely worn him down – if I remember right – these travels to Europe back and forth, the toll that it had taken on him and it was really this disruption of his sleep patterns, the circadian rhythm. Am I remembering that correctly?
Joe Ojile: You’re remembering correctly and just to tease that out because that’s a great example of so many lessons that we’re privileged to share in people’s journeys together is that this gentleman had what many folks from the outside would have thought was a dream job. And in many ways, absolutely was a dream job. But that dream also involved the kind of things that can destroy you. And so, he was having to travel to Europe for at least one week a month, and sometimes to Europe and Australia.
Rob Shallenberger: Wow.
Joe Ojile: Consequently, the disruption to his circadian rhythm. And the circadian rhythm for your listeners that haven’t heard that term before, or are quite as plugged into it, is your body’s internal time clock that has two periods of wakefulness and two periods of sleepiness throughout the 24 hour period, and it’s running independently in the background. And it’s the reason that we get jet lag because we can’t move those periods of wakefulness and sleepiness rapidly. It takes about a day for it to move two time zones, basically. So, when you have to travel somewhere a week a month, the amount of stress on that circadian cycle is very difficult. And lots of things in life have cycles like that. There are many cycles like hormonal and so forth, in our body that run and link to our circadian rhythms.
Joe Ojile: So, when you start disrupting it, the cascade of events that can occur from a health perspective is not always easy to foresee. If you think about sleep this way, Rob, because I don’t want to belabor it too much, but if you think about the nighttime, think about a water pitcher. At night that pitcher’s empty when you go to sleep, and all night long, you’re filling that pitcher up with water, but the water would be a symbol or metaphor for energy. And when you wake up in the morning, your pitcher is full of energy, you’re ready to go and throughout the day, you slowly use that energy by pouring it out of your water pitcher until you get to the end of the day, and it’s empty, and you’re crawling into bed. That’s a perfect scenario for most of us. So, you have that system of, in effect, energy replenishment – we’ll use that as the line – and then the circadian rhythm is running in the background, independent of the water pitcher. And then the third element is your daily cues – getting up to work, some people may be let’s just say for an example getting up to jog; whatever you do during the day that you do steadily – your cues to your brain to say “This is my daily routine.” Those three systems when they’re all operating correctly, they’re all in sync, we call that being fully aligned. And it’s when you have misalignment – so say for instance you go from St Louis or Salt Lake or Denver or New York, but you suddenly are transported to Paris or London, your circadian rhythm will be misaligned from your daily routine because now light, dark, and work are totally on a different schedule than if you were back in your home city. And that’s what jetlag is.
Joe Ojile: And what happens with many people is, we give each other what’s called social jetlag, by going to bed too late, getting up suddenly too early or getting up too late, sleeping in for extra hours on the weekend – you cause a misalignment to occur in one of those three systems and then you start getting some unhealthy things. If you take that to the rest of your life, what I’ve found over these years, if I keep all those things aligned, I also can work at keeping the other things aligned in my life that keep me living a healthy and happy life. So, you remember that story very well, it is accurate and I think it’s a great story for just healthy living and what can happen even when you have your dream job.
Rob Shallenberger: Yeah, for sure. So, let me just rephrase some of these and see what I’ve missed here. So, a person getting ready to go to bed, you said avoid nicotine caffeine, keep the phone away, email, anything that would be a trigger for, I guess increased brain activity. Is there anything else that benefits people or will help them sleep better at night, assuming that there’s not another underlying issue like sleep apnea? So, for example – I don’t know what’s true, I’ve seen both things on the internet – are you supposed to drink water or not drink water? Is melatonin good to take, is melatonin not good to take? Is there anything else that will contribute? Having a dark room obviously helps to minimize the light that comes in. So, right before bed, what about drinking water or melatonin or any of these things?
Joe Ojile: The water issue has some relationship to your underlying health conditions. So, if you’re well-hydrated, there isn’t any necessary benefit to drinking extra water at bedtime. And if you’re well-hydrated and you drink water as you go to bed, you may well cause yourself to have to get up to go to the bathroom during the night. So, there isn’t a hard and fast rule about that, but if you’re well-hydrated, normally, there isn’t a need to have to do that at bedtime. If someone is living in a drier environment – for instance, in the mountains – you may need to drink some water because you get a bit dehydrated during the night.
Joe Ojile: The other part of that question was actually quite important. So melatonin is a naturally occurring hormone, it spikes up in your bloodstream shortly after you go to sleep. So, since it’s natural, it’s not necessarily harmful to use it, but if you’re going to use melatonin for sleep, you should use it usually 60 to 90 minutes before you go to bed. You should take the lower dose of melatonin, there’s a three, five, and ten milligrams melatonin at most drugstores. We suggest you start with the three milligrams or lower. There are some lower doses of melatonin; you can have the pharmacist bring in for you. It typically is not harmful, it’s not an addictive drug, it’s not a hypnotic drug or a controlled substance. So, for most people, it doesn’t have a positive or negative effect, either way.
Joe Ojile: We find for some people there can be some reported benefit by individual patients that it does help them have a better night’s sleep or a more consolidated night’s sleep. So, we will sometimes allow a patient or suggest that they do a bit of a self-experiment with low dose melatonin. One place where melatonin, however, Rob, can be quite effective is if you have that misalignment we were talking about earlier. For instance, especially if you fly east. So, if you go from Salt Lake to Paris, when you go to bed in Paris it’s still going to be late in the afternoon in Salt Lake and your body will not secrete melatonin when you’re going to sleep in Paris because it doesn’t know that you’re in Paris yet. The circadian rhythm is still misaligned. Using melatonin for the first three to five days when you arrive at a timezone ahead of you can be quite effective. So, that’s something that your listeners can use, it’s quite practical, especially when they’re traveling. So, take melatonin use it when you go to timezones that are ahead of you – so, when you’re traveling east – and just use it 60 to 90 minutes before bedtime. It can be very effective in helping you get to sleep.
Rob Shallenberger: That’s awesome. Here’s my last question on sleep, related to that topic. What are some cues that people should be looking for to get professional help, in other words, to take it to the next level? For example, there was a trainer who went to our training, he had a goal to visit a sleep doctor because he had these issues going on, but he didn’t realize that he had sleep apnea. And it wasn’t until he finally connected some dots that that was the underlying reason for a lot of these other problems that he was having. So, I guess my question would be, what are some cues or triggers that people would be looking for in their lives to say, “You know what, I need to go get some help here”?
Joe Ojile: Yes. Thank you, Rob. Thank you for asking that question because that is a question that we always want to have a chance and an opportunity to talk about very briefly. One, if you’re falling asleep during the day and really the things we talked about already are not changing that, you should talk to a doctor. If you’re having difficulty at night or you have someone says you’re snoring loudly, you’re pausing or gasping, or you wake up pausing or gasping at night, you should see a doctor. Because those are problems that are likely mechanical and need to be taken care of and they’re very easily taken care of. And the third area in a general sense that you should seek help for is – we call them things that go bump in the night – when you’re doing things at night or they’re reported to you that aren’t necessarily in your normal experience. And what do I mean by that? You’re either waking up because you’re kicking your legs at night, or someone tells you that you’re getting up and performing an activity at night, but you’re unaware of it. So, for instance, you’re an adult and you’re getting up and you’re thrashing around in bed like you’re fighting or you’re punching, or your body is moving at night in ways that you’ve never seen before. Those things need to be evaluated medically, they can suggest significant and serious other problems, but they are usually very easily cared for. So, those three big areas are things that should suggest medical evaluation promptly.
Rob Shallenberger: And then if it was you, Joe, what would you do? Would you just get on Google and search for a sleep clinic? I mean, you have the Clayton Sleep Clinic in St. Louis.
Joe Ojile: Yeah.
Rob Shallenberger: That’s very region-specific to St. Louis. So, who should someone call? Is it their family doctor? Where should they go?
Joe Ojile: So, depending on where they are. If they’re in a major metropolitan area, there are sleep physicians and sleep clinics, they’re accredited by the American Academy of Sleep Medicine. So, that’s s great resource to look for accredited laboratories that will have board-certified sleep physicians. You can also search for board-certified sleep physicians, or you talk to your primary care doctor and say, “This is what’s going on, could you please refer me to a sleep doctor?” Those are the three main ways I would engage it. In this era of virtual medicine – and this is not about us – but these last six months have opened up a really a whole range of opportunities for folks. And so, right now, with the increase of virtual medicine from the pandemic we’re seeing people even contact us for virtual visits related to their sleep problems. So, there might be even opportunities for that sort of consultation at least to get the process started for patients. So, it’s probably never an exciting time to have a problem, but it’s an exciting time to be able to engage in things that could help you with your overall health.
Rob Shallenberger: Well, and to that point, I just went to your website, claytonsleep.com is Dr. Ojile’s site, so claytonsleep.com. You brought up a good point, I didn’t even think about the virtual side of it that so much of this world has shifted to virtual that that’s a great point. I wouldn’t even have thought of that, so that’s why I asked the question.
Joe Ojile: Yeah. Well, it would have been a different answer before February. We had wanted to do more virtual work, but it was really, from a regulatory perspective, very difficult. But now, during this period, we’ve had people, surprising to us, contacting us from not only hours and hours away from our locations, but from many states away, or patients who know us that are currently residing in on either coast or many hours away, who are doing their visits with us from where they’re residing currently. And so, that’s opened up this whole new range of possibilities. And until we get through this next period of time, we don’t know, but they may well continue.
Rob Shallenberger: Well, and I’ll say this: if there’s anybody listening that thinks they may have anything related to sleep, that could be improved, man, I would just say do it! Go talk to Joe, look him up, look up someone else, but do something. Because I referenced this guy earlier, who set a goal to finally look into this. He did, he was diagnosed with sleep apnea, and I don’t know what the treatment for that was, but he was given the things that he needed to do, and he said it changed his life. Like he felt like he had all this energy in the day that he didn’t have before, that obviously translated into better relationships. Just so many areas of his life were impacted for probably decades, he went through living life not realizing that it was such an easy fix. Let’s move on to part two. I would highly encourage anyone to look into that if you feel like you have anything sleep-related that needs maybe that next level of look.
Rob Shallenberger: I wanted to take some time on part two – I call this part two of the podcast today – because Dr. Ojile Joe is one of the best in the world in that arena. He is also, like I mentioned earlier, just a wealth of information when it comes to history, one of the most well-versed people I’ve ever met. Just general life lessons, it seems like. Joe and I could just sit and talk for hours, and he could just share life lessons. And so, I’d like to give the opportunity for you, Joe, to share that with our listeners because I know that while this is gonna be a short podcast, we could literally take hours doing this. So, aside from the sleep clinic, you’ve been a part of the entrepreneurs’ organization and many other groups, you’ve done all these amazing things throughout your life. If you could share two or three life lessons, what would those be?
Joe Ojile: That’s such an interesting question, and Rob, thank you for asking it. And kind of mulling that over, I’ve been so fortunate and blessed to go through things like EO which is a wonderful organization for entrepreneurs because it teaches you things like culture, as well as the business aspects – which I don’t think that necessarily is anything that we need to do at this point because that’s the things you do every day with your people you advise – and getting to meet people like you Rob, which has been a great pleasure in my life and treasure. But the culture side of it, and by culture, I mean character and what I think it’s really interesting to observe my colleagues and then us is, one of the things I like to tell people that I work with closely is, what I found is that there is just no limit to what we can do when we surround ourselves with good people of high character all day long. And, at the end of the day, as we’ve gone through this longer and now we have grey hair is the more character, high character, and people that seek both the right thing and seek joy every day, we just can’t stop attaining and doing things that we’re successful during the day, but also that move the ball forward as far as creating positive things in our environment, our work environment, our communities.
Joe Ojile: Being someone that’s been focused on trying to make our community a better place through providing medical care, but also doing other kinds of works, that has kind of been the key thing that’s been eye-opening to me over time is, the more we find people that are like-minded, who bring these solid value systems and character to bear on what we’re trying to do, we can figure out how to do great things by focusing on solutions. But when you start with that solid value system at the beginning, it’s almost unlimited. The sky’s the limit on what we can attain going forward. And each time we attain something we wake up and go like, “Okay, we’ve done that now, we can go further. We can do more.” I think that’s been really an eye-opening thing. And when we go out into the world, with just the idea of having our eyes wide open, our minds wide open, and let’s just meet great people all day long, and find out about their lives and how we might just get to know them, and see what’s going to happen. I’m amazed every single day and how much there is to learn in the world that’s so interesting, and so positive. If people want to focus on things that are negative, they can be successful in that endeavor as well. But I find that most of the time, people want to do good things and they want to do good things for the right reasons. So, that to me has kind of been the most valuable lesson that I’ve learned.
Joe Ojile: So, the second lesson that has been an interest to me over my life is that forgiveness is a key part of going forward in a happy and joyful way. And what I mean by that is that we all stumble at times. And so, when we stumble, we need to be forgiven to go forward and do something positive from that. And when others stumble in our lives, if we forgive them both it allows the relationship to grow and go forward, and also, it allows us to have – in a selfish way maybe – the power position which is that by forgiving you take control and power of the relationship to move it forward. Where when you resent or hate it both harms the relationship, doesn’t put you in control because that controls you and ultimately infects and breaks your own heart. And how that affects us both in life and in business is interesting. So, organizationally, when we’re talking to folks that are going to send – we’re going to work with their patients, we’re going to help them with their organization, I always tell them, one of the things I can guarantee them is that we will make a mistake, but when we do that, they have our word that we’re going to try to make it right and fix the mistake, and own it and make things better. And I think that sort of honesty and asking them to understand and in a sense forgive us for those mistakes, when we – and if we – make them is very helpful in an honest relationship. I always tell people, I wake up every day, and I don’t have an enemy in this world. Now, if I’m their enemy that’s on them, but I can wake up happy and joyful every day, and it just makes the day go better. And it’s not something I ever set out to do, but I have patients who say this all day and other people we deal with, they’re like, “I just feel better being here, I feel happier, or I just get a benefit from working in this way.” In other words, having that sort of freedom because when you’re unencumbered by those sorts of burdens, your eyes open to possible solutions that I think are not as readily apparent if you’re weighed down by how you’re resenting or want to get back at somebody. So, I know that’s a very soft thing, but for me, it’s been a part of life that’s been so filled with happiness.
Rob Shallenberger: Oh man, and not to suggest otherwise, but I wouldn’t say it’s a soft thing, I’d say this is a huge thing, Joe. That statement that you just made, where you can wake up and say “I don’t have an enemy in the world is a huge statement”. And I love the way you said it. Forgiveness is something that really puts us in the driver’s seat. It’s a powerful principle because ultimately, the only person that’s going to be weighed down by not forgiving is ourselves.
Joe Ojile: I agree completely.
Rob Shallenberger: It’s either going to chain us, or it’s going to liberate us. And other people will do what they’re going to do. I love the way you said that. People will do what they’re going to do, but that’s on them. And you just got back from Rwanda, it’s a whole separate story and we don’t need to get into that here, but what a principle of forgiveness how 1.2 million people were killed by their neighbors, co-workers in Rwanda. And this was the principle they founded their country on. They’re like, “We can’t put all these people through the court system for murder, we just can’t do it.” And they basically just said, “Here’s the responsibility is so and so needs to go to you confess what they did, how they did it, and where the body was. Your responsibility is to forgive”. And astoundingly it worked. That’s exactly what’s happened in the country and they have found a way to forgive and you just experienced it. What’s happening over there is incredible, and so, to build on that I don’t think it’s anything soft. I think this is probably one of the most powerful principles that any of us could learn and adopt, and maybe one that’s very difficult depending on the scenario in which someone is needing to forgive.
Joe Ojile: And it affects everything in your life. I will share with you quickly in a very cliff note or an abridged version similar to Rwanda in South Africa. We went to where Nelson Mandela was imprisoned and one of his co-prisoners was leading our tour and several things happen. But he talked about he lived on the island, he had been in the same cellblock as Nelson Mandela, and he was giving our tour. And he said he was telling somebody, he goes “I live on the island here, and my next-door neighbor is my former jailer.”
Rob Shallenberger: Wow.
Joe Ojile: And he goes, “And he’s my friend, and I love him.” He said, “We were both in this situation together on opposite sides, and if we’re going to make a better country and a better life for each other, we have to move forward, out of a sense of forgiveness and shared purpose and common love with each other to make a better country and a better life.” And he goes, “And it’s not perfect, but it’s the only way forward, that’s going to get us to a better place.” I stood there, I couldn’t even talk. I was like, the wisdom that it takes to say something like that and the courage and the power – because it takes true courage and power to do that – was so uplifting. So, it’s very similar to the other experience that you and I have shared with Rwanda as well, but it’s easy to encapsulate it. So, it was very… I think it’s just an interesting thing that brings so much. And I always tell people all the time: happiness is the most underrated daily activity that we can have.
Rob Shallenberger: Well, Joe, I think our listeners can already get a sense of what a wealth of wisdom you are, and what an amazing person and we could certainly go on and hopefully this has really benefited some people out there, not only on the sleep side, but just those lessons learned. Albeit in the few minutes that we shared them, those are deeply powerful; things for us to think about at some point will touch every one of our lives, without a doubt. So, Joe, as we get ready to wrap up any parting thoughts for our listeners? And from my perspective, and from all of theirs, I would say thank you for taking the time to be here today. And any final thoughts that you want to share?
Joe Ojile: I want to thank everyone for listening. And I really think to me, the whole idea – I know, Rob, your focus is frequently on the business organization – but to me, my whole thing is it’s not business, it’s all personal. And I really think that life, business is all wrapped into one and the issue of living a life that’s joy-filled and enthusiastic is the thing every day that has given me so much happiness. And so, if folks can find that in their lives, I’m all for it. At this time of the year, when there’s so much both of that activity going on, well wishes and happiness, it’s a great time to spend some time reflecting. And so, I would close with that. As well as I watched the Jimmy Valvano speech that he gave on the ESPY Awards, some 25 years ago now, when he talked about the three things to do every day. One is to laugh, two is to think, and three is to have something that was so emotional, happy, or otherwise, that brought you to the level of tears. I thought those were some very wise words from a fellow human being and coach that were very touching to me. So, I would just conclude with that.
Rob Shallenberger: That’s awesome. Well, we appreciate you being here, Joe. You know where to find him, his company is Clayton Sleep for the sleep side of it. Joe Ojile is just an amazing human being all around. We appreciate you being here, Joe! And to all of our listeners, thank you. We invite you to share this with your family with your friends, co-workers, anyone who you think might benefit from it, they’re not going to know, unless you let them know. So, share this with them, be the catalyst that helps someone else maybe get a nugget that really could impact their life. So, we appreciate you being here. Thanks for being part of this. We hope you have a wonderful day and a great week.
Leading authority on leadership and execution, F-16 Fighter Pilot, and father
Dr. Joe Ojile
Founder and CEO of Clayton Sleep Institute