Episode 194 – Why red light therapy is the best therapy you’ve never heard of

Rob Shallenberger: Okay, welcome back to our Becoming Your Best podcast listeners. I’m grateful for you, wherever you’re at in the world today. This is going to be a fun podcast, this is going to be a little bit different than what we would call, maybe, a normal podcast. We’ve got our friend, Justin Strahan, on here. He is an amazing person! I talked with him for the first time last week. He moved from Minnesota to California; he and his partner started the company called, “Joovv” and we’ll get in all of that and what that is, but this is going to be a fascinating podcast and this is really going to be divided into two sections.

Rob Shallenberger: So, the first is going to be about Justin’s journey and starting Joovv and what that was all about because anybody who’s been in the world of starting a new business, in a business or just going after a dream, in general, you know that there are ups and downs along the way, there are so many things that we can learn. Some of those can be very costly lessons, others not as much, but we can learn from others in that process. And so, I’m going to have him share a couple of his experiences and then we’re going to get into something very specific that I knew nothing about until about four weeks ago. And I’m going to save that part of the podcast for what we’ll call part two, after he talks about his entrepreneurial journey, how he started Joovv, how this all came about, but this has been fascinating to me. In just the four weeks that I’ve learned about this, just absolutely fascinating. Not necessarily something that’s new, but it really is new. What I’ve learned is that very few people know about it, even though it’s been around for years. So, with all of that being said, Justin, welcome to the podcast!

Justin Strahan: Thanks, Rob! It’s a pleasure to be here!

Rob Shallenberger: So let’s jump right into this! Tell us a little bit about your entrepreneurial journey, or at least about how Joovv came about and what the company is and how this started. And then, along the way, you can take a few minutes here, whatever you feel good about – any key lessons learned that you had as you started the company and got to the point where you are now, which is a global company. You’re shipping these products – which we’ll get into. What the product is – you’re shipping them all over the world. So, walk us through how this came about and anything that you think would be valuable as far as lessons learned to our listeners.

Justin Strahan: Yeah, certainly! So, we really got started with my wife’s personal health journey and her interest in really taking care of all of our family members’ health – so, myself, we’re blessed to have six children, five boys and a girl – and in her quest to try to further better our own health and wellness as much as possible, actually shortly after we moved to the twin cities area, she had heard about this thing called, “Red Light Therapy” and she thought, “Oh, that is really interesting, I should try this out.” She was interested in it for a number of reasons, mainly just kind of the overall health benefits but also kind of some specific skin health, things that she wanted to get assistance with. So, she was able to find a local salon that actually had tanning beds that have been converted for this purpose and this was kind of in the dead of winter in the Minneapolis area, so as you can imagine light felt really good, and she didn’t have to worry about the harmful effects of a typical tanning bed.

Justin Strahan: So, she was really impressed by the experience – she signed up for a two-month package and she faithfully went, essentially, every single day, driving across town to this salon. And the benefits that she saw were so overwhelming from a skin-health standpoint that she immediately signed up our oldest son, who was 17 at the time, for his own package. So, now they’re both going across town and by this time she’s also got her sister going as well, and we’re starting to see these amazing things from this red light therapy. After she completed the session, she really loved the therapy, wanted to continue with it, but from a cost standpoint, it was difficult to keep that up. The primary issue was just the matter of time, so it was really something that there wasn’t enough time in the day with everything we had going on as a family, to be driving across town for this therapy.

Justin Strahan: So, she started to scour the Internet, trying to find something that she could use at home, that now she could share with all of us, that all of us could start using. And she was really disappointed to find that there was really nothing available on the market, really, for consumer use for this kind of full-body type light therapy treatment. All she really could find were some small hand-held type devices where, if you used them long enough, you could probably get some benefits on your face, but really nothing that you could use for your whole body.

Justin Strahan: So, that’s really how we got started. She had come to me – my background is in engineering, I’ve been fascinated by science my lifetime growing up in high school and as a university student – my favorite courses were the calculus and physics. She knew if she could get me interested in this, which was a big ask because I was the biggest skeptic of anybody, I think she thought, “Hey, maybe you can come up with something that we could use at home.” So, that initially was the plan – was to try to come up with a way to have a device that we could use at home – and that quickly led us to start talking with my wife’s sister and her husband, Scott – his background is in the med-tech space, working with companies like Covidien and Medtronic. We started to think, “Hey, this could actually be a business opportunity. There’s clearly a gap here, where no one is providing an option for at-home light therapy use.”

Justin Strahan: So, we started to explore this concept, we started to dig into the science and all the research, which was overwhelming, just the sheer amount of it, of nailing down to specific types of wavelengths of light, specifically in the red and also near infrared wavelength ranges and we started to look at ways that we could bring a product to market and kind of strategize how we could make inroads from a marketing standpoint so that we can bring awareness to light therapy in general and really try to take it beyond where companies had done to that time.

Justin Strahan: So, the research has really been around for decades. Some of the original studies have been back in the ’60s and so forth. We were able to harness a lot of work that had been done ahead of us, but really just fill a gap in the market, that hadn’t been addressed before. So, we launched our website in early 2016, kind of slowly started to build market awareness and really had a strategy of building our SEO by producing content, and really connecting with affiliate marketing relationships that could help bring awareness to red light therapy.

Rob Shallenberger: Yes, great background there, Justin! I’ve got to tell you how I came about finding about photobiomodulation light therapy – you know, Joovv and what you do – is I have a really close friend in Alaska, he’s an endodontist, and we were up there fishing just a few weeks ago, like I mentioned, and he started talking with me about Joovv and light therapy. And I thought, “I’ve never really heard of this, so tell me more!” And before we left, he took us in his house and showed us his setup, and in his words, he’s just had this amazing experience with it. I know he’s listening to this podcast or will listen to it. He said his eyesight has come from 2020 to 2010, he no longer has recovery time after working out, it’s just, he recovers so quickly after working out and he directly correlates it with this, light therapy.

Rob Shallenberger: So, we’re going to spend the rest of the podcast on what light therapy is because this has been, like you said, Justin, fascinating for me to learn about, coming from a place of knowing nothing about it, to seeing the impacts can have in people’s lives. Before we jump into that, though, where we’ll spend the rest of the podcast, you’ve really kind of lived the entrepreneur’s dream here, in that you saw a needs gap, you’ve created this company with some of your family and it’s really exploded on ya, and you’ve had success. With any company, we know that there’s success and there’s challenges along the way. What are one or two of your key lessons learned as you’ve built this company?

Justin Strahan: Yeah, that’s a great question. As you referenced, anytime somebody grows a company, essentially from nothing, they’re going to face a whole onslaught of challenges, but I would say one that would be a great personal lesson for me is I tend to, you know, once I am in charge of something and running something, it can be very challenging to let go of areas that I’m used to running, and I think that’s one of the biggest challenges as a company grows, you know, when it starts with one or two people, you’re wearing a lot of different hats and you’re controlling a lot of different things, you have a lot of responsibilities, but as the company has grown, it’s absolutely necessary to recognize the talents of other people that have been added to the team and to hand things off. A lot of times it’s easy to think, “Hey, no one can do this better than me” but I guess one of the best lessons that I’ve learned is not only can people do it as good as me, just, in every case that I can think of, that work has been delegated, they’re doing it at a much higher level than I could have ever done. So I think that’s one of the best lessons that I’ve learned.

Rob Shallenberger: That is a great lesson, too, and I think one we can relate to. Anybody who’s in a business can probably relate to that to a degree and I’ve heard people say many different times that, you know, when you start a business, it’s not hard to let go of some of those things that had been yours, but you’re right – the ability to delegate is huge in a business. So, with that lesson learned, thank you, I’m sure that resonated with someone – you’ve got to trust other people at some point if you’re really going to grow your business, setting up the systems, the structures and allowing the people to take the company to the next level is key, so thanks for sharing that, Justin!

Rob Shallenberger: Alright, so let’s get into this light therapy. We’ve talked about it now already, and referenced it several times. What exactly is light therapy?

Justin Strahan: You know, that’s something that, if you were to ask me that question eight or nine years ago, I wouldn’t have been able to give you any kind of an answer, just like you, it was something that it was totally not on my radar, but what I’ve witnessed and seen from both a clinical study standpoint, and also just witnessing the lives of myself, my family members and friends and obviously now customers from around the globe, is that light plays an incredible role in health, and I think a lot of times, when we think about improving our health and wellness it’s easy to focus on things that we put into our bodies, such as food, the liquids we drink, the food that we eat, the nutrition we put in our body, but I think a huge gap that most people have, from a health and wellness standpoint, is the light that they are subjecting their bodies to.

Justin Strahan: And we’ve seen, in the US, the average person spends about 93% of their lifetime indoors, separated from natural light. So, it’s no wonder that as we’re spending most of our days under highly blue-light centric, indoor, unnatural lighting, that this has had a detrimental effect on our health. And I think that’s one of the main reasons why light therapy has become so popular, so quickly.

Justin Strahan: Essentially what light therapy is, and you referenced the term photobiomodulation or PBM for short, is it’s basically using specific wavelengths of red and near infrared light, to help boost healthy cellular function. And there’s a whole lot of theories, quite honestly, on how this works, and the science of cellular respiration and these processes that generate ATP in the body, but essentially what we do know is that when we give the right wavelengths at the right intensity, we’re really able to dramatically improve some pretty amazing benefits for overall health – you mentioned recovery, is a big one, but the list is just about endless in terms of the different types of benefits from light therapy.

Rob Shallenberger: Yeah, and I want to get into a few of those benefits! Before I do, can you just clarify – because I’ve been researching this a lot over the last three weeks, I mean, I just went to Joovv and bought a big system that they have, it’s showing up on Thursday so I can’t wait to start using this! My wife is excited and we’re going to have our son – he’s a senior in playing football – start using it for his own recovery because he’s limping around every Saturday after their game, so I’m excited for all the benefits. Before we jump into those, though, you mentioned blue light. Can you just briefly describe what blue light is, versus, say, red and near infrared?

Justin Strahan: Yeah. So, in sunlight, we have a whole range of wavelengths of light – everything from the UV spectrum to the visible lights spectrum, to near infrared and far infrared and you have the wavelengths that generate a lot of the heat that we feel on a hot sunny day, for example. And what we’ve done to our bodies in terms of – you know, since the industrial revolution – is we’ve created these unnatural sources of light, that by their very nature tend to be very heavily centered on blue light wavelengths. And the reason for that is actually quite simple and it comes down to how the human eye registers light.

Justin Strahan: And our bodies register wavelengths of light in the blue and green spectrum as being much brighter on a per energy consumption basis than red wavelengths. So, if you go to buy a light bulb at your local Home Depot, for example, you’ll get a lumen rating on the light bulb and that is basically recognizing how bright that bulb is going to appear to the human eye. And the fact is that’s much cheaper and much more energy-efficient to actually produce a heavily blue-centric lighting.

Justin Strahan: And so, the result is we’re affecting our hormone production as we’re taking in these blue wavelengths throughout the day, and it’s starting to become much more well-understood and much more recognized in the industry – companies like Apple, that are introducing night mode on the phones, you have companies that are introducing technology to help reduce the blue light in the screens that we’re constantly looking at often times after dark – they can really dramatically affect our sleep production, our hormone production, and quality of sleep. So, there’s a lot of different ways that the blue light affects the quality of our health, both from the way we’re taking it through our eyes, as well as through the tissues in our body.

Rob Shallenberger: Good! That was helpful actually! So let’s jump back into some of the health benefits now, that you were alluding to. What are some of the health benefits that people see? And I can already go off to some of the testimonials – my friend in Alaska who we fished with, his eyesight, his recovery time, his skin – he’s been telling me, “Man, I’m going to use this for the rest of my life! I’ve been using it for over a year” and based-off of his testimonial alone, I made the purchase.

Justin Strahan: Yeah.

Rob Shallenberger: And talking with you as well. But, in doing my own research, I’ve looked at a lot of clinical trials and studies and seen, like you said, there’s a huge list. What are some of the most common that you see, as far as health benefits?

Justin Strahan: Yeah, that’s really an exciting thing about this. I mean, quite honestly, when we launched our website, it was heavily beauty-focused and female-centric and it was really when some videos were put out by one of our affiliate partners, Ben Greenfield, back in the fall of 2016 – he was talking about studies light therapy had been conducted with, using red wavelengths and some of these near infrared wavelengths, that have been shown to help boost testosterone production in men. So that kind of brought this onslaught of interest in that avenue and now we’ve had unbelievable anecdotal evidence from customers on that front.

Justin Strahan: But you mentioned, recovery is a huge one, but I guess there’s really kind of three main buckets that I would say that our customers fall into. The skin and beauty benefit is a huge one – it’s one of those sneaky things, because we oftentimes have a couple where the husband gets it for the recovery but then, his wife or maybe he hasn’t seen some family members for a few weeks, and they’re pointing out “how great your skin looks” and “it looks younger” and all of these things. So, it’s something that all of us – who doesn’t want to look young, right?

Justin Strahan: So that’s been a huge one, the performance, the muscle recovery thing has been huge – it’s really one of the ways that we think will build and help take it to a much, much broader audience – this market is really still in its infancy, but it’s amazing to see where it has come from in just the past three years, but the interest in the professional athletic community – we have athletes in every major, professional sport using our devices now to help improve recovery. And as you mentioned, it’s something that it’s a noticeable benefit.

Justin Strahan: So those are a couple of them, and then, the kind of the third bucket I would say would be the pain inflammation – reducing joint pain inflammation – there’s some really impressing studies that have been conducted on arthritis patients, just in general, just kind of overall health and wellness. Most people that purchase one of our products, we’ve had some really amazing statistics – the vast majority of them are actually seeing the benefit that they purchased the product for, but there’s a whole other segment that are seeing some other benefit they hadn’t really even been planning on – so it’s something that most people can see or feel some sort of benefit from getting these types of dosages of red and near infrared light.

Rob Shallenberger: Yeah, and that’s great, Justin! You know, it’s interesting, I’m just thinking in my mind, who is listening to this podcast right now? And most people are familiar with the 12 Principles, we’ve done this research and you see, 12 Principles that High Performance focus on, over and over, the top 10% in any industry. And one of those, Principle #10 is to Apply the Power of Knowledge – the very best people, the top 10% in their industry, across the board, whether athletes, coaches, leaders, they have a hunger and a thirst for knowledge. They know that what could be our greatest concern, our greatest threat are our blind spots, the things we don’t know about. So, instead of being cynical and skeptical about everything, they’re actually very open-minded and they’re saying, “What is it out there that I don’t know about yet?”

Rob Shallenberger: What is it out there? And this is one of those that, when it showed up on my door four weeks ago, when talking with my friend in Alaska, I thought, “Let me learn more about this!” So, instead of being naturally skeptical or cynical, we become naturally curious and say, “This is something I didn’t know a lot about. Let me go find out more about it!” Some of the things you just listed there, it’s almost like some people are numb to these by hearing them on the radio. We get quick recovery time – does this really work? But I’ve done my due diligence, Justin, in two to three weeks, based off of the testimonial of my friend, and I can tell you, every single person who has used this up to this point, will talk about how huge of an impact it’s had in their life.

Rob Shallenberger: So that’s one thing I love about the people listening to this particular podcast, is they typically apply that principle, apply the power of knowledge. And so, they’re very open to this. So I would encourage you to continue to do this, and Justin will share some ways that you can do that, at the end of this podcast. But I want to go a little more in-depth, after just pausing there briefly, as to how does this actually work? I mean, you talked about the benefits, and that was great. How does that happen? How does light therapy work?

Justin Strahan: Yeah. So, it’s very interesting! So, this has been studied, as I referenced, for decades. We have Dr. Michael Hamblin, researcher at the Harvard’s Photomedicine lab, has served on our advisory board since early 2016. He himself has actually participated in over 400 published papers on this topic. As I mentioned, just a wide range of benefits. But one of the most widely accepted theories on what’s actually going on at the cellular level, comes down to cellular respiration and essentially at the fourth phase of cellular respiration, there’s an enzyme called Cytochrome C oxidase or CCO for short, and due to just an onslaught of negative impacts that our bodies are constantly faced with, whether it’s stress, being exposed to high levels of blue light, electromagnetic radiation from the electronic devices we’re constantly surrounded with, the toxins in the food we eat, the water we drink, the air we breath. The human body is faced with an unbelievable amount of toxic type stressors more than ever before.

Justin Strahan: And what’s basically going on at the cellular level, is that Cytochrome C oxidase binds with nitric oxide and basically slows down the cellular production of the cell, or you’ve heard of ATP – which is basically cellular energy. And essentially, what light therapy does is the photons of light, I mentioned specific wavelengths – red and infrared light which we can dive into that a little bit as well – basically, help break that bond and help restore healthy cellular function. So that’s kind of the most widely accepted theory and that’s one of the things that we really sought to do from the beginning is to bring awareness and demystify what’s going on, why is light therapy important and help people understand this is a well-proven science. It’s not one of those gimmicky type things you often see in the wellness industry – it earns a bad rap for that at times. So we really focused on the science from the beginning and sought to bring awareness and education so that people can understand what’s happening and why they are seeing the facts that they are, from this therapy.

Rob Shallenberger: Yeah, you just brought up something interesting – they’re the highlight – and that is that this has been around for a long time – light therapy – there’s been a lot of research, clinical studies, and trials, yet it’s not something that has been publicly aware. Up to this point, it’s still not.

Justin Strahan: Yeah.

Rob Shallenberger: That’s why we’re doing this podcast.

Justin Strahan: Yeah, I would say it’s still not. I mean, they’ve been using cold laser or low-level laser therapy since the ’60s for recovery and for physical therapy type applications where you’re treating joints with lasers and it was really with the advent of some research done by NASA in the ’90s, that demonstrated that LEDs could be just as effective as lasers, only now you don’t have to worry about overheating tissue, the price of the devices drops dramatically and now you have something that’s much easier to get into someone’s home to use on a daily basis. But, yeah, it’s very interesting, because even after that, all of the products in the market were really geared towards this almost consumer electronics, beauty space and there was really a lack of anyone bringing awareness to the overall health benefits for the deeper tissue when you use the right wavelengths of red and near infrared light.

Justin Strahan: So, just to jump into that real briefly, on those wavelengths, typically you’re looking at red wavelengths in the range of 630 to 670 nanometers, so the red to deep red range, and then near infrared wavelengths between about 810 nanometers to 880 nanometers. And the main difference between those two ranges, although they are thought to essentially have very similar effects on the cellular production of energy, the near infrared wavelengths are much more effective at reaching deeper tissue. So, if you look at most of the studies, they’re looking at joint pain, inflammation, reducing pain, improving recovery, those are typically in that near infrared range. So, one of the things that we did very early on – our first products, by the way, were all red devices and then, in 2017 we launched the equivalent of the system that you purchased, that uses both red and near infrared and we really saw a dramatic increase in the effectiveness of the therapy at that point.

Rob Shallenberger: Yeah, that’s a good clarification on the difference. I noticed that in researching it, is that it’s important to have both of those, right? And that actually brings me to the next question here, which is I didn’t have to look long to search out light therapy and other things to see that there are infrared saunas.

Justin Strahan: Yes.

Rob Shallenberger: So what’s the difference between an infrared sauna and say, the Joovv system and the setup between red and near infrared and what’s the difference between those two?

Justin Strahan: Yeah, that’s a very common question. We have a blog post on our website to address this in detail, but essentially with an infrared sauna, the whole purpose of a sauna is to raise the temperature of the body’s tissues. So, the most effective saunas are going to be using wavelengths that are in excess of 3000 nanometers and the reason for that is those wavelengths generate much more radiant heat. One of the things you probably found from your friend’s Joovv system is there’s very little heat delivered. Now, LEDs, of course, put off the heat so you have some kind of convection heat going on into the device itself, but in terms of the actual wavelengths, there’s very little heat delivered.

Justin Strahan: Whereas with a sauna you’re dealing with wavelengths in excess of 3000-5000 nanometers that are delivering high amounts of radiant heat, raising the body’s tissue, inducing those heat shock proteins and you get the benefits related to… Most of the studies with saunas are showing benefits related to the cardiovascular system, so you generate effects very similar to physical exercise. Whereas with light therapy, rather than putting kind of a stress on the system in inducing cardiovascular response, you’re actually giving nutrition to the body at the cellular level with these specific wavelengths. So, there are really two totally different therapies and you’ll find saunas that have red LEDs in them and so forth – but the intensity or dosage, if you will, of those wavelengths, is so minuscule to be essentially non-existent in terms of photobiomodulation.

Rob Shallenberger: Great description there, because I didn’t know what the difference was. I was looking in this, saying, “Well, do you get the sauna or do you get this?” Great clarification there. So, last question, and I think this is going to be one that applies to all of us because, what is the future of this? And what do I mean by that is, you know, we’ve been talking about how this is really something that even though it’s been around for a while, people don’t know about it. They don’t know what it is, but in new health – I don’t want to call it fad because I hope it’s something that sticks – in this new health direction that our society is moving, over the last 10 years where people are becoming much more conscious of their food, their body, their health, their exercise – this seems to have a big impact on that and, like you mentioned earlier, one of the reasons why it’s probably not well-known, is because it wasn’t something that was really available to the average person before. Whereas now, through the company you’ve started and with what you’ve developed, it is available to someone in their home. And so, this is something that could really be a big part of our future moving forward, not only with our diet, our health, our exercise and everything else, but this is a whole other arena that up to this point most people haven’t been aware of. So, what is the future of this going forward, into the 2020, 2025 and 2030 arena? What does that look like to you from your perspective?

Justin Strahan: In the words of Dr. Michael Hamblin, one of the things he mentioned one time, that just cracked me up, he said, “You know, in five to 10 years, I don’t know exactly how long this is going to take, but I see in the US, that virtually, every household would have some sort of light therapy device and I don’t see any reason why it can’t be you, guys.” I said “I like that answer!” So yeah, we really do see this as the future. People have beat to death all the different ways that you can exercise your body and that you can put nutrition in your body, but I really see light as kind of the third leg of that stool that many, many people are missing out on. And the cool thing is, it’s so effective that the vast majority of people are able to notice some sort of benefits very quickly.

Justin Strahan: So we are certainly going to continue to do our best to bring awareness to this. I don’t know what percentage of, if you were to pull 10 people in the street, what percentage have heard of any kind of light therapy products, it’s a pretty low percentage. So we’re excited for what the future holds and we’re doing our best to make inroads and provide education to bring more awareness to this therapy that we think, from what we’ve seen so far, has an incredible potential to dramatically improve people’s lives. So, I have to admit, the therapy works much better than I ever dreamed it would, which is I guess a good thing, but it’s been really just overwhelming, just the stories that you hear from people and the difference that our products are able to make in their lives.

Rob Shallenberger: Well, and that’s exactly, Justin, why I wanted to have you on this podcast, is to bring this type of awareness to our listeners. Part of Becoming Your Best is to stay on the leading edge, to be on the front edge and to be aware. And I can just tell you in my informal polling that I’ve done in the last two weeks, less than 10% of people have any idea what light therapy is. And I was in that category four weeks ago. Hence, the reason why we’re doing this podcast is to bring that awareness of what this is and the benefits that it can bring to a family, to a person, to an organization.

Rob Shallenberger: You mentioned that athletes are using this. So, my wife does Crossfit a lot, I do Crossfit; our son, like I said, played football, so we’re excited just to use this for the recovery alone, let alone all the other benefits that it’s going to bring. So, why don’t you, Justin, if you could, share where people can learn more about this, because we’ve had this brief introduction into what light therapy is and hopefully it’s peaked the interest in some people because it will make a difference in their lives, simply based on the people who have used this, I can say that. So, where could they learn more about this, specifically from Joovv? I mean, you’ve put together some great videos that can help people learn more about what Joovv is, light therapy, red versus near infrared. What’s a good place for them to go so that they can learn more about this?

Justin Strahan: Yeah, definitely. We appreciate the opportunity to make this available to your audience. Our website is and I would encourage your listeners to check out the learn page and they can dive into as much science as they would like or stick to the basics in terms of how light therapy works and the various benefits that can be received. I will point out that every article on there, lists multiple published clinical research studies to back up the information that’s there, so definitely encourage you to check that out. Another fun thing to look at on the website is the customer reviews, those are 100% direct from our customers and that’s a great way, too, to get a snapshot of what people are seeing, as far as the impact in their lives by adding light therapy as a part of their daily routine.

Rob Shallenberger: And you talked about the testimonials – a part of the reason we’re on this podcast, again, is my friend in Alaska who I whole-heartedly trust. His testimonial was so overwhelmingly positive and amazing, that I said, “Man I really have to look into this as soon as possible.” Hence why we’re here and why I bought one and why I’m looking forward to setting it up on Thursday. So, excited for people to take a look at this, it’s just another piece of awareness that can really have a big impact. It’s part of becoming your best. So, again, that’s, and Justin, one of the co-founders of the company. Justin, again, thanks for taking a few minutes today, this has been awesome to learn more about light therapy. Any parting comments that you want to make?

Justin Strahan: I just encourage people to take an active role in your own health. You only get one body so making investments in being your best, obviously taking care of the health of your body is a huge way you can do that, so I encourage you to check out the science and see for yourself.

Rob Shallenberger: Yeah, awesome! Well thanks, Justin, for being on the podcast today. Just a reminder, if you haven’t done it already, with yourself and your teams, you can take a personal productivity assessment on and that will give you an objective score to see where you’re at. This light therapy is just one more area that’s going to play into that overall score and we just want to remind people that that is up there. If you haven’t taken it, go take it. And again, thanks, Justin, for being on the podcast today, for sharing your insight, your knowledge about light therapy. We encourage all of our listeners to go, check it out, learn more about this, because, again, it’s one more thing that can have a big impact on our lives. So, to all of our listeners, we wish you the best and hope you have a great week!

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